Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories. Conservation Stories is a podcast brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research Association. I'm your host, Tillery Timmins Sims, and I am so excited to introduce you today to Stephen Hummel. And Stephen is part of an organization that I just became familiar with and had no idea anything about light pollution. He is part of Dark Skies. Stephen, thanks for joining us. Can you give us a little bit of background about you?
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you, Hilary. Yeah. I'm the Dark Skies Initiative coordinator for the McDonald Observatory.
So I'm part of the University of Texas at Austin. But instead of being based in Austin, I'm way out west in the Davis Mountains up at the McDonald Observatory. So, yeah, my job is essentially to preserve the night sky in the vicinity of the observatory, which is mostly west Texas and a bit of southern New Mexico, for the benefit of astronomical research.
Although, as we'll talk about, there's a lot of other benefits to preserving the night sky aside from just astronomy as well.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: Well, and I, you know, I've, I've heard a few things about light pollution, but I really, you know, kind of like a lot of other things in my life been like, whatever, and now I've, I know enough that I've been wrong about a lot of things to go, okay, there, there is probably something to this, and I'm really excited to learn about, about light pollution and what the solutions are and why it matters.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think when most people hear light pollution, their first thought is, oh, you know, that's annoying for astronomers or, but, you know, what's the big deal? Like, it's not a real pollutant is what I think a lot of people expect. But it is. And the reason why is really quite simple. All life on Earth evolved under a day and night cycle, right? Sun comes up, sun goes down. And different animals have evolved to be active at different portions of that cycle. So we are, of course, creatures of the daytime. We don't really see or experience the world the way nocturnal animals do.
In many cases, we are far more sensitive to light. So when the sun comes up, we feel awake. When the sun goes down and there's less light, then we start to feel sleepy.
But if you think of, say, I don't know, a nocturnal animal, even a raccoon or even some migratory birds, it's the inverse. So when darkness falls, then they're more active, they actually generate less melatonin, the hormone that helps make you sleepy. And so all sorts of behaviors can be affected by Artificial light at night. Everything from our own sleep cycles to migratory patterns of animals, breeding behaviors, feeding, pollinating, the list goes on and on and on. And when you really look into it, it's kind of amazing that it took this long to really recognize light pollution as a significant problem. It is.
I think it's just because we are, again, creatures of the daytime. We have a diurnal bias. We see things in the daytime and think that's kind of all that there is to the world. And the rest of the world goes to sleep too.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: But of course, that's not the case.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Right. That's interesting. And I know I've seen a lot of more research and things people are talking about, you know, making sure that you, you know, turn your screens off, you know, a few. An hour or so before you go to bed, that kind of thing. And that's, I guess, a little bit of what you're talking about, how it impacts the wildlife.
[00:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So it impacts us. Right. Artificial light at night, particularly blue light, suppresses the generation of melatonin in humans. And so that can throw off your circadian rhythm. And that is even tied to certain health risks, like even certain forms of cancer, diabetes, increased risk of severity from mental health effects like ptsd, depression. There's a long list of really serious and deadly diseases that are linked or correlated with light pollution. And so if it affects us. Yeah, it affects the natural world as well.
Most people, especially on the eastern half of the US when they were growing up, they remember fireflies being everywhere. And now, of course, they're really kind of rare. You know, I remember as a kid going outside and just catching them all up in a jar and, you know, it was just a fun thing to do. There was so many, like, it didn't seem to matter. But now, you know, lucky to see a couple.
And so, yeah, in that case, the light is just making it harder for them to find each other and communicate and reproduce.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: Wow, that's kind of sad.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: It is sad, yeah.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Because I too. I have memories of that, too, but only down we would go to Lake lbj. My grandparents had a house there, and. And that's. That's the only place I'd ever seen them because I never saw them in West Texas, but I saw them there for the first time as a kid. And just. They're amazing little creatures.
[00:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And of course, there are other reasons why they're threatened. You know, there's. There's a lot of pesticides and overgrazing and a lot of other things. But light pollution's among the top reasons. But, you know, I don't want this to sound too negative because the nice thing about light pollution. Right. As opposed to some other forms of pollution, is that the solutions are actually really easy and immediate. Right. To fix the problem, you could literally flick a switch and it goes away. It doesn't persist in the environment like other pollutants.
So the majority of light pollution is really caused not just by any light, but certain kinds of lighting practices, namely lights that are kind of aimed up towards the sky. You think of like a typical flood light aimed sideways, maybe a third or half of that light.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: It doesn't fall on the ground. It just goes straight into the sky. So just aiming a light down and shielding it, that removes a lot of the effect that you would see from far away. And then another thing that you could do is just use lower intensity of light. Obviously, it's pretty straightforward, but this is actually really related to SAMP safety. Like, I want a lot of people think about light pollution and they go, you know, maybe it is a problem, but our money. Safety is more important. And I'm here to say you can have both. Right. You can have good lighting that's safe, that exists, and it's not any more expensive. If you adjust the light to the intensity you need, then your eye adjusts accordingly. Right. Or put. Put another way, if you. Instead of light, the more light you add to an environment, you don't necessarily get more safety. Right. It levels off after a certain point, and that point is pretty low. By just lowering the intensity to an appropriate amount, we can actually see better. Because your eye has an ability to adjust to what's in the shadows and within the light.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Right?
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah. The contrast isn't too harsh, Right?
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And it doesn't take as long. Like when you go from something dark to something super bright or vice versa.
I mean, you're blind for a while.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So we worked with a local gas station in one of the towns nearby. And the neighbors of the gas station were complaining that it was really bright. Like, so bright that when they were filling up their cars with gas and then they drove back out on the street, they were completely blind, like, because I couldn't even tell their headlights were on, it was so bright. So we took a light meter and we measured how bright it was. And according to medical standards, it was literally bright enough to perform brain surgery.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
Oh, my. That's very funny. And a waste of. A waste of energy and money.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we. We Mentioned that to the owners and yeah, they saved 80% on their energy bill just by reducing the brightness down to what's appropriate. Yeah. And so, yeah, the solutions again, are not that complicated. Right. We don't have to live in total darkness to reduce light pollution. We just have to think about a little more carefully to kind of get over the, the, the assumption that light, all light is inherently good and recognize that light can have some, some dark sides to it as well.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Interesting. Well, you know, we were together at the Texas Texan by Nature Summit and we heard them say, people, planet profits. And what a great example of this movement that is like, hey, this is something that helps people, it helps the planet and it actually can help a business with their profits, with their bottom line.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, It's a great example of conservation and business practices actually being on the same side.
The real barrier is just awareness, being aware and getting over kind of the biases we have about lighting. That's it.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: That is that what a, what a great easy thing for people to do. It's just not hard at all. I'm just, I'm just floored at like, how so if, if, say I'm thinking about like where we are, you know, on the Permian Basin and you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you're driving from Fort Davis and then you are going up to Midland, you know, I'm talking about there's like all kinds of. Oh yeah, so what, what can folks out there do the same, Same kind of thing, like just making certain that the light is directed right where it needs to be.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So I've worked with a lot of oil and gas companies, particularly in the Permian Basin area.
And yeah, initially there's often the sort of hesitance like, you know, what is this dark skies all about? Well, we need lighting for safety and yeah, you're right, but we don't need to light the neighbor half a mile down the road. Right. They, they don't necessarily appreciate that. So yeah, we worked with many operators to come up with solutions for large scale industrial facilities that targets the light where you need it, still meets all relevant safety standards, lowers their energy costs and is also better for wildlife too. So yeah, that's what we call the Dark skies initiative in Texas. And in New Mexico there's a recent effort called the Dark for the park initiative, which is particularly trying to preserve the night sky around our national parks. Carlsbad Caverns. Yes. So yeah, they have a lot of light pollution from industrial facilities in that surrounding area.
But, yeah, it can work, and we've proven it now on large scales. It's just a matter of getting the word out and getting the job done. And on that front, I have job security because there are thousands of operators out there. Yeah.
[00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I'm just thinking about what, what.
Let's just say, you know, this is something that I'm like, this is easy. And I live in a neighborhood in the middle of Lubbock, and what can I tell my neighbors? I mean, is this something that I can like, hey, put a sign in my yard that says, you know, something that. And make sure that my lighting is. Is correct?
[00:11:49] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Start with your own lighting. And then if you have. I could ask this a lot. Like, if you have a neighbor that has a particularly bright and annoying light shining into your. Your neighborhood, you know, your property, the best thing to do is lead by example and then offer them a solution. So what you don't want to do is go to your neighbor and say, hey, your lighting is awful. Fix it. Like, they're not going to know, you know, what it means to them. It's. It's good. So you have to find and research a solution to provide to them that make it easy. So sometimes we'll actually donate fixtures or help them find something that works. And you can go to darksky.org and they have a list of dark sky certified lights as well as some other tips, so they make it easy. And yeah, we in west Texas, far west W.E. mcDonald Observatory offers a recognition program for businesses and facilities that use good lighting. So they actually do get a little sticker that you can put on the window or a poster. So when you see that property, yeah, you can say, oh, this is doing it right and leading by example.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: Out here on the Texas plains, water is everything. And there's a resource that's as vital as it is fragile. Our Playa Lakes. These lakes are nature's reservoir, catching rainwater to recharge our aquifer and provide lifelines for wildlife. But now they need our help. In collaboration with the Texas Playa Lakes Conservation Initiative and the Cargill Global Water Challenge, Sarah has started the Our Legacy is Tomorrow's Water Initiative to inspire and work with landowners to restore and protect our Playa lakes. Each playa we save helps secure a sustainable water future for the generations that will be coming after us. Whether it's improving soil health, restoring habitats, or recharging groundwater, we are committed to managing, making a difference. Together, we can build a legacy that we can all be proud of. To learn how you can join in, visit the Playa Lakes Restoration Initiative page on the SARAH website. Let's keep Texas water flowing strong for the future. Visit sara-conservation.com so what is the. What's the response? I mean, to me, especially where you are? I don't know if people have been, you know, most of our listeners. Surely you have maybe been down to that part of Texas. It's just so beautiful. And the night sky there is like a tourist attraction.
So I guess you have pretty good response to people wanting to dim the lights there or make sure that the lights are not pointing upwards.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: Is that. Is that about right? Yeah. People understand it there a little bit better, maybe.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I think. Yeah. On average, more people understand it here better here than elsewhere, so. Efforts to preserve the night sky have been active since the 1970s here.
And by state law, the counties around the observatory have lighting ordinances. It's actually a requirement in most places, although it really comes down still to awareness to actually make sure it's done well.
But, yeah, most people are supportive in large part because our night skies are so dark. It's part of the culture here. You know, it's as integral to the area as the landscape.
And as you mentioned, it's a big tourist draw.
About two thirds of the visitors to the region participate in stargazing activity during their visit.
So, yeah, it's a big economic driver, and we get about 60 to 100,000 visitors annually at the observatory who participate in our programs. So, yeah, we're the place to see the sky in Texas, and we want to make sure that remains that way for decades to come.
[00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So when a city like Lubbock, which, you know, we are, of course, everybody, I'm sure is there's migratory birds everywhere. But I feel like we have a, you know, you know, a larger supply of them. We supply the supply, as, you know, that they depend on, and we have our fair share of migratory birds. How does the city like?
Is it a pretty big impact? I just. I've never thought about it. Disturbing. I don't necessarily equate wildlife and the city. But we are seeing a little more of that as we are encroaching on more of their habitat, you know, so what as a city. Have you seen any cities in particular take an interest in light pollution and try to raise awareness or do anything about it as a. Just as a, you know, a community effort?
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So we have some cases of that here in Texas. Communities in the Big Bend region, like Fort Davis and Alpine Marfa are good examples. But outside of the Big Bend region, even where the night sky isn't necessarily as well known to be great in Austin area like Hays county and a lot of the Hill country area, there's a lot of efforts to preserve the night sky there as well. So for example, the city of dripping springs since 2011 has been a certified dark sky community. And they're a suburb of Austin pretty much. So it's still. Yeah, you know, they have Walmarts, they have, you know, big box stores and hotels and all that, but they're still, they're, they're still doing their part to reduce the impact.
And even larger cities like Tucson, Arizona have lighting policies to preserve the night sky and that helps as well. Another great example is Flagstaff, Arizona. 70,000 people. And of all the cities in the world, they're probably the ones to take it the most seriously.
They're very, very pro dark skies there and they have some really progressive policies in preserving it and it's been effective.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: Okay, so what would something like that look like? You're talking about passing some type of city ordinance where any future lighting has to be within the standards that you guys have set, which are not hard to meet and can save people money.
Is that kind of what. And then they just help people that are interested.
What are those projects look like? I guess is my question.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Yeah, so yeah, a city could pass an ordinance on lighting and yeah, generally that means lighting shielded so that the light doesn't shine directly into the sky, at least resources above a certain intensity. So you know, you would exempt things like Christmas lights and stuff like that using, you know, intensity appropriate to the task. And then sometimes there's a color requirement. So the more blue the light is, the more it scatters in the sky. That's the same reason the sky is blue. Right. So using a more amber color helps a lot reduce to reduce the overall amount of light that's scattered in the sky that reflects off the pavement and then just timing. So for example, some cities have rules on turning off illuminated signs when the business closes or by a certain hour. There's different varying levels of.
But actually in Texas we, not a lot of people know this, but the state has a rule on light pollution in our health and safety code that applies to all state funded projects passed in 1999 and it requires any light that uses state funds for the project to be shielded. So that applies to things like TxDOT and you know, a lot of, lot of different projects. So yeah, the Texas is actually kind of Ahead of the game. And it comes to light pollution, we're doing a lot better than a lot of other states.
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Well, and you know, that would make sense though because we are, you know, the stars at night are big and bright. And so it is part of our, I mean, it's just part of our DNA. We want the lone star state to want the people to be able to see the stars. And when, let's just say a city does something like this, if you're, even if you're in the city, does it impact how much you can see the stars?
[00:20:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So the city is still going to be, you know, lit light. We're still going to have enough light for safety and security and meet those needs. But yeah, you might see some more stars in the city limits. But the real difference would be when you drive out of the city, instead of having to drive hours to get away from that glow, you may drive 10 minutes, 5 minutes. So it dramatically reduces sort of the radius of effect. So yeah, like for example, we at McDonald Observatory are 180 miles ish from El Paso. We can still see the glow of El Paso.
So usually a major city might have a radius of around 200 miles or so that it impacts. But with better practices, it could be 20, 30, 40 miles. So a huge strength.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: Well, so McDonald Observatory, other than keeping things dark, what else are you doing out there?
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, so we're home to one of the largest telescopes in the world. It's called the Hoppy Eberly Telescope. And it is just completed a map of the universe out to about 11 billion light years.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Oh my.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: Looking at, yeah, galaxies, their light took 11 billion years just for it to reach us. So the goal of that project isn't just to build a map for maps sake, it's to figure out why the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate further, if that rate of expansion has changed over time. So when we look at galaxies 11 billion light years away, we see the universe as it was 11 billion years in the past. And so we can kind of get a history of the universe. And by mapping how all the galaxies are moving throughout that history, we get a sense of the expansion of the universe. Why is it expanding? We have no idea.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Well, have you, have you come across any life forms out there? Are they all.
[00:22:15] Speaker A: You hear about it?
[00:22:17] Speaker B: No. See, I think that's the thing is we wouldn't hear about it. Like you might tell us, but then we might go missing.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no aliens confirmed here. But we do, we are actually looking. I, we have A device called the Habitable Zone Planet Finder. And it does what it says in the box. It finds planets that are on the habitable zones, meaning liquid water could exist, atmosphere could exist around their star.
So hopefully finding planets that are at least kind of like the Earth and maybe even measuring the composition of their atmospheres to figure out if it could harbor life. So, no. No smoking gun. Obvious signs of aliens yet. But, yeah, we would let you know. Every astronomer wants to be that person.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Name the other Earth. There's. There's Earth 2.0. And they're like, no, you are 2.0. That's what will happen is we find another Earth. And they'll be like, no, we were here first. So we're the real Earth.
[00:23:20] Speaker A: We're the alien. Yeah.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Oh, my goodness. That would be. Wouldn't that be amazing, though, to. I mean, I guess that, like you just said, that's kind of like everybody's wildest dream is to come across something like that.
I just blow in my mind. Well, this has been really interesting, and, you know, I have a good case of add, and I'm always like, ooh, that's a great project.
So I'm thinking to myself, man, how can we start promoting this in Lubbock? Because I do have a really sweet neighbor, and. But I'm telling you, I don't have to have any lights on in my house, and. And when their backlight is on, it is plenty bright.
Plenty bright. So I'm already thinking, like, I might could, like, gift them. Hey, here is a. Here is another light fixture for you. Might be a nice idea. You never know how people respond, but.
[00:24:11] Speaker A: Bring a pie, some brownies.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Oh, that's a great idea. There we go. That's a great idea. Maybe say, we'll do it for you. We'll do the work for you. Because, you know, that's not always easy for some people to change out their light fixtures. But thank you for joining us. This has been super interesting, and I hope that our listeners have also learned some things they can do. I already know that I need to change the light fixture on my back porch and on my front porch. I know that they're bad. I already now know. So I'm motivated to do that and motivated to tell other people because it is really easy to do. Thank you, Steven, for being here.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: Thank you so much for the opportunity. It was a pleasure.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Well, I look forward to our listeners hearing this episode and learning all about it. And thank you, friends of Conservation Stories. I hope that you will like and share this podcast. It is a way that you can actually make a great impact on our efforts that we are doing here in the high plains. I hope that you will join us again for another episode of Conservation Stories SA.
