[00:00:13] Speaker A: Music hey, friends, welcome back to another episode of conservation stories we're glad to have with us today. Rhett Kirby. Rhett is a friend of mine from back in the day, and I've been really fascinated to watch, Rhett, what you're doing, like on LinkedIn and the information you've been providing to people about soil health and soil remediation. And I'm just excited to have you on today to hear kind of a little bit about your background. So kind of tell people where you're from, your little bit of your history, and how you got where you are today.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you, Tillery. Thank you guys for the invitation to come on the podcast.
It's very kind of you to ask. I grew up in the panhandle, graduated high school from Muleshute. I did go to school at Littlefield up until the 9th grade, so northwest of Lubbock. From there, after high school, went to Texas Tech and studied agronomy and have an undergrad in agronomy from Texas Tech and a graduate degree from Iowa State in agronomy. But after college, after really after my undergrad or during my undergrad, had an internship with USDA NRCS Natural Resources conservation service. And so working at NRCS was, I did that for about nine, nine years, in which of that, about five or six of that was as a district conservationist, where you basically have a county to run.
And there's a lot of different responsibilities that come along with running a county, according to NRCS. A big part of that is soil erosion, soil health, being able to understand and communicate science based conservation practices to farmers and ranchers, helping them navigate farm bill programs. It was a great, great learning experience.
They have great technical documents, great technical research that mainly comes through the ag research service. In 2010, late 2010, early 2011, I left the federal government for an opportunity to go into the private sector, where I, I managed Bamart seed company, which was in my hometown of Mill, shoe and Bamaert Seed company, if you don't know, is a pretty unique company. They do some really cool things with growing and producing native warm season grasses, forbs and legumes. So they do a lot with pollinators and grasses and just conservation in general. And so it really was a fitting next step in my career, I felt like. But what became really obvious during that part of my career, Washington, the, my exposure to non agricultural needs related to soil science and plant science. For instance, at Bamarin Seed company, because they're not selling row crop seed, they're selling native warm season grasses. And forbs and lagoons. A lot of that goes into land reclamation, which part of my agronomy background is land reclamation. That's part of what Texas tech concentrates on is land reclamation. So I understood land reclamation, but I had never had an opportunity to really begin to communicate with industries that needed land reclamation until I was there at the seed company. And the folks doing land reclamation are civil engineers or landscape architects or some sort of service provider, not farmers and ranchers. And I jokingly say, you can give a farmer or rancher seed, and he knows what to do with it. You give most civil engineers seed, and they don't know what to do with it. They don't. Just like, I don't understand civil engineering. They don't understand the disciplines that go along with agronomy. And so there was this disconnect so fast forward, connect some dots. Me and my brothers form a company in 2014. That was really the intent was in 2014 for my youngest brother to have a job coming out of college, and he did that part time for about three years, but landed a large oil and gas project in 2017.
I was able to make an exit from the seed company in 2018. And since then, we've been doing land reclamation work, which is all a function of soil science, soil health, all of those things that we've kind of talked about. We've been doing that in about, I think we're up to maybe 25 or 30 states now where we do land reclamation for all energy sectors, renewable energy, oil and gas, commercial construction, hydrogen plants, limestone plants like quarries, mining. And so we do a lot now with, most of it is non ag related, not row crop. I mean, our clients are in. Our customers are not farmers and ranchers, but they are people and that need soil science solutions.
[00:05:02] Speaker A: Well, not them thinking, like, immediately what pops into my head is the whole south side of Lubbock and what it looks like, you know, when we're about to, you know, have a new development come in and you notice how bluffs like crazy and, you know, just some of those, you know, when you say non agricultural, I'm like, man, it's everywhere around us. You know, that need is there. We kind of think that, you know, the farmers and the ranchers are the ones that are responsible, you know, to take care of the land. But really, you know, we're talking about corporations and, you know, just even individuals that have. Have that need. I recently spoke to a young man that lives out on the south side of Lubbock and is concerned about, you know, the water out there and how do I get, you know, some seed? And how can I, you know, how do I, if I get the seed, how to get it planted? I only have ten acres, but I don't want to put in, you know, Bermuda grass. You know, what do I do? You know, and, you know, just some of those smaller individuals that see the need and they care.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, and you're exactly right. It is unique. There are, there are unique issues that come along with working in that industry, and a lot of it's related to. Yeah, you're right. Dealing with corporations having to have certain trainings and, and working, having to have certain insurance requirements and, you know, versus working in an agricultural setting on a farm, those things are, you're either exempt by statute from a lot of those things or, or there's not a. Not a concern. There's a different, there's different dynamics that go along. We definitely can't operate at the level, at the efficiency level that agriculture does because there is red tape. And.
But you bring up a great example of an urban setting needing soil conservation, soil science without going down the path of regulation. There are states. Let me back up. The Clean Water act of the United States protects a lot of these resources that you and I are talking about.
It's really a function of, does anybody on a local level regulate or monitor for them, even if the laws exist, if they're not monitored for, corporations don't see the need.
And uniquely, a farmer has a vested interest in protecting his soil health because he wants to see it produce. On the contrary, a civil, you know, a corporation developing land, they see that as an added cost. They don't see the benefit in that. They see that as a burden. And so it, that's where, you know, I do unfortunately feel like regulation may need to play a role some in managing natural resources in those settings. Otherwise, no one else is going to. The corporations don't do that within themselves.
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[00:08:45] Speaker A: We have a blog post on ESG, you know, and I think ESG is really interesting because, of course, there's a lot of pushback on it. And I know there's, you know, there's good, bad, everything, but you know, I think it's interesting that a lot of, you know, folks from maybe more of our worldview who see the world, you know, like, through the, through the lens of Western Christianity would say, you know, that we're, you know, we live in a fallen, broken world, but yet somehow corporations seem to be exempt from that, you know? So if you're making money, then, you know, we don't want to cause anything to prevent a corporation from making the most money that they can, you know, and I guess, I think, you know, in the, in the blog post, it's like, well, you know, we put boundaries around our children because we know, you know, that we don't want them to harm themselves or someone around them, you know? And I mean, to me, that's kind of where I see these ESG credits as, like, how do we hold, you know, corporations responsible? I mean, the fact is that it's their investors that are saying, we want to know.
We want to know what you're doing. You know, we want to ensure that, you know, you are, you know, being responsible and that you, you recognize that, like the farmer, you too have, you have a vested interest in taking care of what you have been, you know, given, you know, and that includes, you know, the land that, that you're setting on the land that you're using, you know, and so, you know, to your, to your, you know, point that you can argue back and forth about regulations and, you know, I wouldn't say that I'm, like, pro regulation, but I'm like, you know, at some point, you know, we have laws that make people do things because they're not going to do it if they're not made to.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: I jokingly told my friends I'm as capitalist as they come.
But, or, or, and there are some resources, whether it's human resources, whether it's environmental resources, non renewable resources. USDA defines that as soil, water, plants, air, animals. Those in a capitalist world, those resources are not able to protect themselves. Animals can't protect themselves. The soil can't protect itself. But in their non renewable, you know, when you think back from a science perspective, these are non renewable resources that can become extinct or unavailable. The soil, once it's, once you destroy your topsoil and let it blow away or wash away, it's, it's not feasible to expect that to be made again or be brought back. And so, you know, I do feel like there are some, in a capitalist setting where some resources need to be protected by statute because capitalist views to create margins and profit do not, there is no economic equation that says, oh, we need to take that into account. So by definition, it's going to be left out. So, yeah, I think there are things that there are non renewable resources is the category I use that probably need to have a, be made part of that capitalist equation because otherwise they will be exhausted to their entirety and be gone forever. And so I do think there is a place.
[00:12:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And, you know, we've said in other podcasts that, like, the hardest place to find is the middle, but that's generally where you need to, you need to wind out, you know, like, you, you have to balance, have that balance on both sides. And it's hard, especially in the world we live in these days, to find that. But it's really important. One of the things that I love that about what you're doing is what you're doing in solar farms. So I've done some, some work in solar farms, and I'm kind of like you. I think we need all the energy we can possibly get. Like, we're going to need it. We're going to need all the energy we can get. You know, so I know solar farms are controversial, and, you know, some people, you know, I know that they're taking up, you know, some good, viable farmland and in other areas, I don't think that's necessarily true. Maybe here where we are, I see them more as added value for people who maybe not, would not be able to stay on their land if they didn't have that extra income. So let's talk for just a minute about that and what you and the past have had some discussion on. What, what do those contracts need to look like that will ensure that the landowner, you know, that their, their land is taken care of? And, and what are you guys doing to, to help not just landowners but the, the energy companies as well?
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's, that's the really kind of where I enjoy spending most of my, my intellectual capital is, is in that conversation, because whether it's the farmer, whether it's the energy company, whether it's generally, everyone in that equation wants to do what's right by the land. At least I go into those conversations assuming that. And from the landowner's perspective, what my goal is with a landowner is to explain to them that they have a responsibility as a landowner to the level that they're interested in, in protecting their own natural resources, because that capitalist equation that I was talking about is not going to do that for them. So if they value their land or the soil or the wildlife or whatever, they need to be proactive in negotiating that in a way that protects their interest, because it's not going to happen. Once that contract is executed and turned over to construction, unless those things are very well provisioned, those things will not have, those protections will not take place. So I try to explain that to the landowner, and we have lots of attorneys. We have language that we could present on the landowner's behalf simultaneously. And on other projects, we'll work with, as a consultant, work with the energy companies to help them create language that protects these natural resources that they want to protect. Generally, they just don't know how. And it's a function of they want to learn how, and so we help them as a consultant, do that. And in a solar lease negotiation, what I've learned is that most solar developers will pay for the landowner. They're the landowners legal representation and their consulting representation. So there's no, generally no out of pocket expense to the landowner to do these things. It's just the landowner needs to understand what he can. What he can do.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. So let me ask you, you know, I've heard people say, you know, that some of these solar farms, you know, they've leached, you know, different, different, you know, chemicals or whatever, and then I. That now they've got a brownfield site. Like, it's ruined the land underneath it. I've never personally seen that, but is that something that has happened in the past?
[00:15:43] Speaker B: I have yet to experience any sort of ground. You're saying contamination from the sort of solar.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I've heard that, but I've been like, where has that happened? I've never heard of it. I mean, I've heard people say it happens, but I've never seen evidence that it does happen.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm unaware of any. We spend a lot of time on solar farms, and I have not yet seen anything to. To make me believe that that is.
That could happen.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Well, you guys run. You run sheep?
[00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we own sheep as. As a company. We own probably between a head of dorper, sheep hair sheep that we run on solar farms as a vegetation management tool.
Running sheep for vegetation management is different than running sheep to harvest. Harvest the vegetation and put weight on your. On your lambs. Like two different. Two different models.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Like, for instance, we're managing with sheep vegetation heights between, say, six and 18 inches. We've got to keep the vegetation there with sheep. So anybody that does this knows that the stocking rates has to fluctuate with the amount of vegetation that's being grown. So we move sheep on and off these solar farms to balance the vegetative growth during that time of year to make sure it's not stocked too heavy or stocked too light.
So, yeah, that's one of the fun parts that we enjoy doing, is grazing.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: That's interesting. Well, let me ask you another question. So do you feel like that people are more concerned now with environmental concerns, like more corporations are thinking about these things? I know my experience has been in working with some oil and gas companies, particularly in the permian basin, that there's a realization that in the past people haven't done what they should do, but that there's a commitment to moving forward to do better and that there's work to be done and that there's an interest in getting that done. Do you, are you seeing that same movement?
[00:17:53] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, I am. I mean, I really am. I think they're always. Oil and gas is unique because, you know, there always be those that, you know, the group that may not. But as a whole, I do feel like oil and gas is becoming more conscious of that. And it's a function, I think, of esgs or the ESG movement.
It's just a different conversation now about managing resources, especially when an oil and gas company wants to or has the goal of creating a carbon neutral barrel of oil. I don't know if they'll ever get there, but it changes that. The mentality, if you're going to become carbon neutral and pump oil, the good luck, number one. But you really need to start valuing the things in the environment that capture carbon. Well, what is that? To me, the biggest carbon sink there is is the soil. And so, yeah, I think there are multiple conversations that are leading in that direction. For sure.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's an, I don't know, it's a, you know, easy to get to feel discouraged about, you know, things that go on. But also, I'm always so encouraged when I see your post on LinkedIn. I encourage people to follow you. Do they follow Rhett Kirby? Do they follow Ker tech? I mean, what's the best way to follow you to see those videos that you're producing? Educational videos on LinkedIn?
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah, most of them go up on my, on my page, and I'll share some of them out to, to the company page, too. But it's. I don't know, it's just organically been something that I've posted videos for seven or eight years now. And they're great.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: They're great. I've learned, I've learned so much. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so tell people if, you know, people want to, you know, they have a need or they want to learn more about your company, where would they go?
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So you could go to our website, which is Kertech llc.com.
you could, you could stop by if you're in shallow water. We're there on the s curve on 179. You can stop by there. Message me on, on LinkedIn. That's a great, great way or I'd be glad, I think, Tillery, I've shared my email, I believe, with you guys. It's rKirby
[email protected].
[00:20:22] Speaker A: Okay. Well, we will take all of that and we will link it all up in the show notes and people can just click and get right to you there. So thanks, Rhett, for your time. I really appreciate it. And thanks, listeners, for joining us for another conservation stories. See you soon.
