Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: FOREIGN hello, friends, and welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research Association. We love to interview new friends and educate our listeners about all things ag conservation and rural economic development and economies. And I'm excited today to introduce you to Jeff Dudensing. He works for the Farm Service Agency as a program specialist. Jeffrey, welcome. And I'd love for you to give us a little bit of your background, tell us some about yourself.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Thank you for having me on. I grew up in Sweetwater, Texas, a small town in West Texas. After completing my undergraduate studies, I pursued a master's degree in agriculture and applied economics at Texas Tech University.
In 2006, I began my career with USDA working for the packers and Stockyards Administration as an agricultural economist in Atlanta, Georgia. And then following that, in 2008, my wife Rebecca and I moved to College Station, Texas, where I transitioned to the USDA Farm Service Agency as an agricultural program specialist.
[00:01:17] Speaker A: I'd like for you to give us a little bit of background because, you know, some of our listeners are, you know, farmers and familiar with the FSA and have been in and out for generations in that office. But there's also quite a few that, you know, are maybe have heard of the usda, don't really know what FSA is. And can you give us some background on the part that FSA plays in the business of agriculture?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So there's, there's actually multiple divisions that are here within our my division. These are the areas that I'm responsible for. And then again, this is for the state of Texas, the conservation compliance for the highly erodible lands and the wetlands, which that's one piece that we cover. Most people know that as the AD 1026 is the form that you have to fill out to have your eligibility.
The next piece is going to be the Conservation Reserve Program, which is also known as CRP Disaster Designations, so the Secretarial disaster designation, which opens up emergency loans to producers, or it could be an administrator's physical loss notification that we can go ahead and get that approved. The next one is going to be the Emergency Conservation Program, also known as ecp, the Emergency Forest Restoration Program, which is known as efrp, and then the Grassland Reserve Program, which is grp. And the GRP program, it transitioned away with the last farm bill. And now that's what we know as CRP Grasslands.
But these programs, you know, they, they emphasize the partnerships and relationships that we have with, you know, multiple different agencies. While the Farm Service Agency serves as the administrative body. The technical expertise is provided by the Natural Resource Conservation Service, or it may be by Texas A and M Forest Service or even our extension agents from Texas A and M also.
But they help with developing, you know, let's say, the conservation plans that we use for CRP or emergency forest restoration plans or forage stewardship plans that we use for efrp.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So there's a lot of different programs, and these programs are intended to help farmers to address specific issues that they're having on their farm. How do they go about participating in these, you know, farmers, know. Know this. But just for the layperson, for my little producer that's sitting right here, what does that look like? And why. Why does it matter to farmers?
[00:03:48] Speaker B: So some of these programs, you know, they're going to be something as far as conservation, and so it's going to be something that they're. They actually want to do on their land. And so they would come into the Farm Service Agency and work with nrcs. And these can be environmental concerns that somebody is really concerned about.
Up in the panhandle, you know, you have the lesser prairie chicken. And so we have different conservation needs that are up there that we may want to take care of. And so it's going to be, you know, as I was talking about the partner. So it could be, you know, Fish and Wildlife that comes in, or it could be NRCS working with producers, and they're going to develop that CRP contract to want to get that producer's land and get that producer participating with us in fsa.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: So a good example of something like this would be the wildfires that happened more recently up in the panhandle on north of Amarillo. And that was just really, really the worst in Texas history.
And could you kind of tell us how, you know, FSA works in those disaster, you know, areas? And because we're really talking about, you know, farmers, they have to have, you know, if they want to participate in these programs, they need to have a number for their farm. And then FSA can help them, you know, identify what they're talking about. They're coming in and they're reporting their acreage on, you know, different crops that they're planting. Right. In order to participate in some of these programs as well. But how, like the farmers that. And ranchers that were affected by the wildfires, how were y'all able to. And how did these programs, what they look like?
[00:05:27] Speaker B: So as we talked about, you know, the crp, the previous one was Conservation Reserve Program, is more looking at something that we're planning out. And so, you know, it's going to be something that we're, we're not reacting to. But when we actually look at our disaster designations or the emergency Conservation program or the emergency Force Restoration programs, those are all looking at the response and the recovery to get the producer back into agriculture production. So in my civilian career, in addition to this, I also work in the Texas Army National Guard for 21 years.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Thank you very much for that, by the way.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: And that service, you know, it includes two deployments to Afghanistan, two to Egypt, and then numerous domestic operations. And primarily the focus is going to be on disaster response and recovery. And so with this, with these different disasters that we run into, we learn how to work with the state operations center. They're located in Austin, Texas, and all the different agencies and all the different partners that we have. So just the ECP and EFRP programs are just part of one of the tools that we can use for these recovery efforts. So as you were talking about, the smokehouse creek fire, 2024, it burned over a million acres in the Texas Panhandle and it caused extensive damage to the agriculture lands, growing fences, watering facilities and other conservation structures.
So with NRCS as our technical service provider, we can go out and help those producers and we give cost share assistance. And, you know, it can be somewhere between 75% cost share assistance to all the way up to 90%. And that's to help those farmers and ranchers restore that fence and to get everything back into agriculture production. Honestly, that's going to help that community, you know, stay vital and then to be able to rebuild just within that one disaster. We've already had, you know, over $20 million in applications that have come in and we're continuing to work through those.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And that's, you know, I think it's important to know when we're talking about, when we're talking about these programs we're talking about is money. These programs are providing either assistance, like the technical assistance that people need, like they, they might need someone to come in and tell them this is the type of native seed that you need to put in on this CRP land, which is Conservation Reserve Program, which is a program that was paying farmers, it was started many years ago to start to pay farmers to set aside land that was really not, we would say, like in good shape for people to kind of understand in layman's terms and then. But, you know, farmers take land out of production. And, you know, part of that also is to help balance the markets, farmers lose money. And so it's vital for our national security to have food, to be independent in our food production. And I would, you know, if you would mind speaking to that, you know, like, I know that people get. You hear things about how much money that farmers are getting and that people hear the farm bill and they see that budget and they think all of that's going to agriculture, you know. So I guess when I'm talking about what are the value of these programs, that's what I mean. The value of these programs are as much about the conservation of the land, but they're as much about the ability for the farmer to stay farming.
[00:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So as you were talking about the Conservation Reserve Program. Yes. It was created in 1985, and with that initial response was looking at highly erodible land. You know, you have a lot of that that's located up in that region in the panhandle. And so you had that land that was taken out of agriculture production, which was not the most productive land that was available.
And then in 1990, you know, they transitioned and they even added in different kinds of lands. So as we were talking earlier, the conservation compliance and talking about bringing wetlands in, they brought wetlands also into the Conservation Reserve Program. And as that program has morphed over the last 30 years, you know, you have different projects that we have across the different states that may target a specific species. One example of that is going to be your lesser prairie chicken. We used to have a project that was in the state of Texas that where we would try to have CRP lands, and we were able to go above the 25% cropland limit for a county to put more land into CRP and to try to help that population and improve that cover up in that area. But as far as the rental rates that you do get on the CRP land, it's 25% of the sole rental rate for that county for that land to be in agriculture production.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: And so you really, a way maybe to think about that for people is like this. The government is renting this land for specific purpose. They have a. They have something. They have a goal that they want to achieve. And so part of that process is for land to, you know, in this particular case, have, you know, very specific native grasses, very specific nesting situations for the habitats for these birds. And so they are renting the land for the farmer to meet these types of goals that we have for what is really vital to the conservation of our. Our land.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Yes, ma'am. And in addition to that, some of this land is not 100% out of production. I mean, our CRP grasslands program allows for it to still be in either, you know, some kind of grazing product production or haying production.
Even within the general and the continuous programs of crp, we still allow for, you know, either managed haying and grazing or an emergency haying and grazing. If you're hit by one of these natural disasters.
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Really what happens then, I guess is what you're saying through the years, you know, you start a program to meet a specific need and as the needs change and they try to adapt these programs to be more efficient, to be more applicable and helpful to the situation and the farmer that is, you know, technically the landlord of these, of this land that the government is running. That's a good way to think about crp. There's all kinds of different programs though, right, that you know, work differently and are for different reasons, but they're all there for the same thing, which is to help people to be able to stay on the land and to help solve some problems. A lot of our listeners, let me ask this, A lot of our listeners might have a few acres of land. They're listening, they're thinking, I can participate in this. But there's very specific guidelines for these programs. They have guardrails, so to speak. And so not just anybody can just come in and say now, Now I have 30 acres and I want government assistance for this. So what is that? Can you kind of give some of those guidelines? What are those guardrails that are in place? What, what, what, what requirements need to be met for. And I'm not just pointing out one specific, but maybe just give us an idea of what some of those requirements might be.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And as you know that we, we're now just coming up on an expiring farm bill. And so you know what the new rules are going to be in the new farm bill. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty there. But as far as in our current, in our current CRP program and the handbook that we use for that is going to be known as 2crp and it's going to be revision 6 that's out there and it's available producer. But the, the paragraph that actually covers that land eligibility is going to be paragraph 151, eligible land criteria. And within, you know, that paragraph and, and looking at those details, one of the things that you have to meet is going to be known as your cropping history. And so usually they're looking at five years of cropping history that you had to have. So it would be from 2012 to 2017 for the previous farm bill. And as long as you had that cropping history, that was one of the things that you're going to be required to have. So you're correct that it's not just going to be any piece of land that can come into the CRP program.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: And so is that history, is it connected to the land or is it connected to the farmer?
[00:15:25] Speaker B: It's to the land.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Right. Because that land generally has, if it has a history, it's already been assigned a farm number and probably potentially has already participated in programs in the past. What do you, what are your, what's your guess on the amount of farms in Texas that are participating in FSA programs?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: I don't have the answer.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's a, that's a hard one. Somebody asked me yesterday, do you think it's even possible to farm if you're not participating in an fsa, you know, or in some type of government program? And we all just kind of sit and looked at each other like, I don't know if it is or not. I don't know anybody doing it.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: So I don't know whether you're participating with, you know, RMA and just doing the, written the insurance piece or. But yes, your, your AGI, your gross income is is going to impact whether you're eligible for the program. So you may have somebody that's really wealthy, doesn't meet the eligibility requirements for, for AGI, however, they still may want to participate and, and either, you know, get technical, technical advice from nrcs or they may want to keep their tax exemption, let's say. And so like, hey, I want to enroll it into the CRP program, even though I'm not going to earn payments on it, this allows for me to keep my tax exemption.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: Jeffrey, let's, let's talk for just a minute about the farm bill. And you know, it, we've a lot of us in, you know, that are connected to ag have been worried about this for unfortunately too long. Why does it matter? What does it matter? What is, what is in that farm bill that impacts these programs that you run?
[00:17:02] Speaker B: I mean, historically, if you want to go back and you want to look at the farm bills, I mean, it was about production, agriculture and being the most efficient and effective at making food and fiber. And then as you continue to transition it all the way to the modern times that we're in now, you know, we're looking more at conservation and, you know, taking care of the land. And so that's, you know, that's what a lot of these programs are about. You know, we don't need to be farming on h E l lands or converting wetlands and destroying those kind of covers for agriculture production. And, and so we were kind of transitioning that land. You know, this is environmentally sensitive for either, you know, either the water or sensitive to different wildlife species, different things like that. And so that's, you know, it's really a wholesale way approach to taking care of the environment.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: So NRCS and FSA are generally co located together.
Do you have any background or any thoughts on like, how why does NRCS control some of these programs, administer some of these programs and then FSA administers other programs.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: You know, honestly, the EQIP program, which NRCS has originally, it was part of the ECP program.
It was actually underneath the Emergency Conservation Program or ACP is what it really came all from back in the day. But as far as Farm Service Agency goes, a lot of what we do is administrative. Whether that's, you know, understanding the rules and the regulations of the eligibility of the personnel of the land, and then also the, the funding side of it, then that's really a lot of that's in the Farm Service Agency. When it comes to the technical side, that's going to fall underneath the nrcs. So an example could be that emergency conservation program, which we've talked about multiple times, where if it's going to just be simple debris removal, you know, an FSA employee can go out there and look and say, okay, hey, did you get all the trees taken care of? Did you get the fence, you know, removed? Did you get it replaced? Did you post, did you paint all the TPO paint all the H braces and corner posts? You know, those are pretty simple things to do. But when we talk about restoring a pond or a dam or some kind of major conservation structure, well, now you're gonna have to have NRCs and their engineers, you're gonna have more technically qualified personnel. And so you're gonna have a different set of skills that those employees are going to have. And what they're going to be trained on, whether that's environmental consultations, working with fish and wildlife and looking at these targeted species that are in those areas.
It could mean that we're going to change the specifications of a fence because, you know, the antelope are in that area. So it may only be a four strand versus a five strand barbed wire fence.
It's all kinds of stuff like that that you're going to end up, you know, referring over to nrcs. And they're going to be able to be that, that technical, that technical subject matter expert, just like likewise, you know, in Texas, we don't probably have a whole lot of NRCS personnel that are going to be forest experts. And so. And we don't have a huge US Forest Service representation here in Texas either. So then what we do is we call upon the Texas A and M Forest Service, which is a state agency, but they're the one that provides all of our technical assistance for these federal programs. So I work with a guy named Shane Harrington, and he. When we do have these hurricanes that come in or something like that, tornadoes that tear up the forest and we need to be able to restore it, then he's going to work with his team and they're going to end up building those forest stewardship plans and help that producer be able to restore that land back to production.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: Yeah, and that agency is fantastic. Their website is phenomenal. And for landowners, even where we are, where they're in no way are we a forested area. But there's their maps for programs that land that you can find your land and click on that map and it will tell you the programs that that land qualifies for. And it is really, really a helpful. I was very surprised when, when I toured there Because I was thinking this would in no way will what they do relate to me or anything I ever know. But I was very, very surprised and amazed at their, you know, what, what all they do.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: And yeah, and then it's the same thing. So the emergency forest restoration program, again is the 75 to 90% cost share rate to the producer. And so that means, and when we say cost share, that means that the federal government's going to pay 75% and the producer's paying 25% of the cost. And so and then that goes all the way up to $500,000 per disaster ID. And so an entity. So if you think about it from that standpoint, one of the big success stories that we had is of course, you know, Bastrop had the longleaf ponds that got destroyed. And so that was one of the, that was one of the places where we implemented EFRP that year and restored that land back to agriculture production.
[00:22:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that emergency forest restoration program. And so I like what the brochure that I have from you says, it provides funding to restore privately owned forests damaged by natural disasters, assistance helps landowners carry out emergency measures to restore forest health on land damaged by floods, hurricanes and other natural disasters. You know, that's a, I think that, you know, you may be wondering why are you talking about this, but I really, one of our goals is to help a person who gets their food from the grocery store to understand the value of the person who, not just the person who's growing that food, but all of our production and all of our land and how valuable it is to keep the land in this forest production, keep this land in act production, and it impacts them. And their knowledge of these programs is important because we want them to understand why they should be supporting the efforts that the government makes to keep farmers on their land and farming. It's really, it is, you know, and going back to what you do on the National Guard side, it is part of our, it's a part of our national, national security.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: On the, as we talked about cropping history for crp, cropping history doesn't apply to EFRP or ecp. So, you know, and also AGI does not apply to those two programs. So, you know, these, these, you know, disasters don't pick out, you know, how much, you know, a wealthy producer or a socially disadvantaged producer, you know, it hits everybody the same. And so, so across that, that program's available to everybody. And so all they have to do is come in, we announce a sign up for 30 to 60 days and we try to make sure that everybody's aware of it. In addition to that, we use imagery to try to identify, you know, the burn scars, let's say, in a wildfire or if it's a hu.
We can look at the surge and we can see, you know, where is that at on the imagery, and then contact those different producers and try to get them into the office to get assistance.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And I think for us, too, it's important to note that one of those disasters which is more applicable to us is drought.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Yes, ma'am.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: So they can. They can qualify for assistance during that time. Well, we really appreciate you, and I thank you so much for kind of breaking some of this down for us and helping us to understand what you do. And we appreciate your service to the farmers and also your service to the rest of us in your National Guard duties. And thanks for joining us, Jeffrey.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Well, thank you for having me on. I appreciate your style.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Thanks. Thanks, listeners, for listening in to another episode of Conservation Stories. We look forward to being with you next time.
